Why is heracross banned

More importantly, I think saying that Heracross limits defensively oriented teams is kinda misleading in some respects, since Stall teams are the ones that tend to be able to handle Heracross quite well, since they can invest multiple slots and forms of residual damage in their defensive cores to deal with it. Furthermore, Stall teams tend to be fairly homogenous anyway, since they are optimized builds that don't have a ton of room for flexibility, especially with Defog making it so that Stall teams are mostly a matter of whether or not it can out stat check the enemy team.

Heracross mostly limits the ability for slower balance teams to branch out and diversify, since trying to run glue mons like Porygon2 means that you are immediately pressured into bringing multiple Heracross answers, where one of those is probably a Gligar and a bunch of offensive checks, or Gligar and a few more defensive checks, leading to a stallish build. It feels like there is rarely a good in-between when it comes to building against the mon, and I found that kinda annoying, although not necessarily broken.

Anyway, I'm super washed up so take my rant with a grain of salt, but I'm like actually so done with shoving Gligar on all my teams. In insert. The only set which really poses a problem imo is the flame orb guts one, scarf is easily checked by gligar, doublade, florges and the likes, players can even switch around creatively into resists predicting close combat or megahorn or whatever, Sure, moxie can get a sweep going around but if you play smart and keep checks healthy, it shouldn't pose much of a problem.

Sd guts is arguably the best wallbreaker, a problem to all defensive and offence based teams and has minimal defensive counter play, but is outsped by a lot of common offensive mons, take salazzle, swellow, and literally every scarfer, and heracross doesn't really have great defenses, and is pressured by residual rocks and the racking burn damage , and is in that way dealt with. The Correct way to play would be to quickly ascertain what type of heracross it is, which is obviously visible in one turn as seen from the flame orb burn, and then proceed accordingly.

Just because a mon is strong doesn't mean it's broken and should be banned. And if people are talking about lack of defensive counterplay, you would much sooner ban freaking linoone while you're at it.

Don't ban. Let the bug stay. Apparently I need to clarify you can use Heracross on the ladder, who knew. Heracross is a solid scarfer and late-game sweeper with flame orb, but it's checked by any fast scarfer with a super effective attack, or certain physical walls such as gligar.

It's also not really affecting team diversity. It's also not the only scarf user worth running, with Hoopa, Salazzle, Bruxish, etc. The only real reason one might want to ban it is that it dominates on the physical scarf side, but as the suspect reasoning seems to take exception to his wallbreaking power at 85 speed, I'll be voting do not ban if I end up getting reqs.

Aurora [Hyperlink Blocked]. TheTapDancer said:. In insert said:. Last edited: Jul 17, FlamingVictini FV. Heracross is definitely not broken. However, Heracross restricts teambuilding very heavily.

Heracross also won't be missed, since other pokemon can fill in a similar role as the sd guts set without being as stupid to handle as heracross. To put this another way, fat teams won't suddenly dominate the meta if hera gets banned. Scarf heracross is also not a key mon in the tier - the meta will be just as fine without it.

I think banning Heracross will go a long way to helping the tier develop and diversify. A lot of what FlamingVictini said is true. Scarf Heracross is just a cleaner who is easy to deal with right now. If I have the time to Ladd, i dont know what i would vote for yet but i wouldn't be bothered by a ban to be honest. Ranger Mike. FlamingVictini said:. Yeah, Heracross has to go. You're also forced ro run flying coverage on its "counters": Air Slash for Mantine, Acrobatics for Gligar, etc. Once it gets an SD you have to sack mons including your supposed counter.

Scarf also dents through many teams because of Moxie but it's npt the only Scarfer that does this there's Honckrow which has a more spammable Brave Bird , so I wouldn't say this is the broken aspect. Heracross heavily restricts team building so it has to be banned. Not really metagame related, but for the formula, is it log base 2 i. To make this post more relevant, I've been messing around with Stall to get requirements so far out of low ladder, so that's good I guess.

When it came to teambuilding and using the team in practice, Heracross rarely was a problem thanks to Defensive Moltres. Also works really well right now on Balance teams since it's a pretty good stallbreaker.

Last edited: Jul 18, We don't "train" together? What do you think Smogon is for? What do you think happens on Shoddy? The Japanese won through some hax read some of the logs , but mostly because they take doubles more seriously than us. The reason they are banned has nothing to do with convenience. User Info: SoulGainDestiny. User Info: Daramue. I'd be interested in knowing more about the Japanese metagame, as I find their rules interesting. I play in an environment with similar rules Obviously not online, they're with my brothers , where nothing is banned other than ubers, or sometimes for variance we will have two ubers, accompanied by four other whatever-the-heck-you-want pokemon There are other rules but I don't want to go into detail.

While this may seem strange, it certainly helps me escape the run-of-the-mill experience I always get playing online or on Shoddy. I find the battles to be very interesting and some of the strategies employed are interesting themselves, too. Anyway, the similarities between this environment and the Japanese metagame are pretty neat.

Does anybody have a link explaining this "World Cup" you're talking about? I'd be interested in reading about that. I did a quick search for it and didn't find anything really relevant. How many horsies? In the smogon thread I read about in the actual event the Japanese getting better by battling and helping each other teams while Americans were more secretive and avoiding showing their hands. Anyway, this is just anecdotal evidence. Meaning they are not game breaking at least in doubles.

Those rules have been more or less consistent since from 3rd gen. With strong typing and good stats, Heracross has been a powerful threat since its release.

Heracross boasts a decent typing overall, resisting common moves such as Earthquake which allows Heracross to be a strong pivot option.

However, Bug typing is a problem for Heracross as it is weak to common types such as Fire, Rock, and Flying, limiting its defensive utility. These weaknesses are very problematic in any standard format though, and they ultimately keep Heracross below the big guys, roaming as a powerful wallbreaker and potential revenge killer in other formats.

Positives Stats - Heracross has great stats across the board with only Speed being subpar and Special Attack being terrible, but Heracross never uses it. It also has access to strong coverage options such as Earthquake and Stone Edge, as well as Facade for Guts sets.

Negatives Speed - While it was mentioned that Heracross has good overall stats, its Speed is a problem as 85 base is far from good anymore. This means that Heracross has to be played carefully as faster threats easily force Heracross out and makes it very easy to revenge kill.

Item Dependence - This ties in with Heracross's low Speed, Heracross needs specific items to really work. Guts - Raise Attack by 1. Swarm - Raise Bug moves by 1. Moxie - Raise Attack by 1 stage when KOing a Pokemon - Heracross's best ability overall, this allows Heracross to really abuse a Choice Scarf to sweep as well as Substitute for wall-breaking.

With the Flame Orb to trigger Guts, Heracross becomes a powerful wall breaker that has multiple switch-in opportunities with its ability to act as a status absorber once burned.

Facade is the main coverage move with good base damage and neutral coverage while Knock Off cripples Psychic and Ghost switch ins. Swords Dance rounds out the moves to allow Heracross to 2HKO most of the tier, as well as pressure out stall teams.

Slightly worse off than the Guts set, Choice Scarf allows Heracross to revenge kill threats or look to sweep off the boost from Moxie. Knock Off makes a return with its ability to cripple walls and pressure Psychic- and Ghost-type threats.

Earthquake hits Nidoking and Nidoqueen hard what otherwise are a problem for the set. Pursuit is a nice option over Swords Dance here to hit things trying to run while Stone Edge or Earthquake are nice for Togekiss and Nidoking respectively. Mega Aerodactyl - An aggressive partner, Mega Aerodactyl pressures a lot of the metagame, most of which it wants to come into are threats Heracross brings in.

With its massive Flying weakness, Heracross tends to lure in easy set up fodder for Mega Aerodactyl while chunking bulky Water-types that can bother Mega Aerodactyl, as well as Weavile.

However, both have to be wary of Scizor which is a very common threat. Scizor - Resisting Fairy- and Psychic-types, Scizor is a nice option to switch into threats that can harass Heracross and Pursuit trap Ghost- and Psychic-types, while revenge killing Fairies with Bullet Punch. Scizor also has access to U-Turn to give Heracross a free switch in as well as Defog to prevent residual damage from stacking up.

However, be mindful of stacking Fire weaknesses. Flying-types - With a quad weakness, stray Flying-type moves and Pokemon are some of the best ways to answer Heracross. Mega Aerodactyl is one of the best answer with its massive power and strong presence.

Mantine and Moltres are also strong options with their good bulk. Mantine can just Roost off the damage and scare off non Guts sets with Scald while Moltres just blows it up. Fairy-types - Similar to Flying-types, Fairies have a natural resistance to Fighting-type moves, making them excellent answers to Heracross.